Mar 21 2008
Open Comments on the Iraq War *updated*
After 5 years and much loss in Iraq, what is your opinion on the war and its results? Was it worth fighting? Was the Bush Administration honest about the war purpose for war valid? Did the war make the US safer? What should the plan be going forward? What are the long-term and/or short term consequences of the war on the US and our role/standing in the world?
Let’s hear your views….
20 Responses to “Open Comments on the Iraq War *updated*”
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I bet this will get a discussion going. You should know that I don’t really intend to defend what I’m about to write.
Don’t you think it’s a bit one sided to ask that question after your previous post? You didn’t exactly open this up to discussion on an unbiased note.
I’m not trying to be a jerk or start anything. I’m not saying that we should be over there or that I think this whole thing is a good idea, either. I do, however, believe that there are two sides of this discussion and starting out a discussion by defacing the other side is not a good way to openly discuss anything.
I have my opinions on this, but it is clear that you’ve already made up your mind on the whole thing.
“After 5 years and much loss in Iraq, what is your opinion on the war?”
How could anyone answer this question without looking like they support “much loss”? Could a person ever answer this question by saying: “I love war!! Woot! I’m so glad we’re at war, this is so fun!”? Of course the majority of people would wince at this, especially if part of the “much loss” was someone they knew or if they are taxpayers who actually care where their money goes. If a person loves war, they really shouldn’t be a part of the discussion, anyways, but the inevitable truth is that some people just don’t listen to anything but a swift kick in the butt. In reality, 5 years isn’t that long. There are wars that have been raging for decades and centuries, but in our short-term-I-want-it-my-way-right-away-fast-food-American mindset, we think it should have been a couple months tops.
“Was it worth fighting?”
It’s not done yet, but if you ask the soldiers I bet you the good majority of them believe in what they are doing right now. They believe that the people they have lost died for a reason. If they didn’t, then what are we saying to a kid who is on the lines right now? It seems like we are saying “if you die (like all these others) then you’re death isn’t worth anything.” Now I know that nobody wants to say that. Clearly that is NOT what is meant by that phrase. Clearly what you mean to say is “Should we even be in Iraq?” But in an effort to make it sound more compelling, we use words like “worth” and “value” to connect our ideals to an emotional response.
“Was the Bush Administration honest about the war?”
It depends on who you ask, but I suspect the answers would be mostly divided along party lines.
“Did the war make the US safer?”
Again, it’s not done yet. Did the cloning of humans really help stop disease? Did my pastor leaving our church help our church to grow? The point is, we are going thru a very difficult time, both economically and socially, and it becomes very difficult to answer these types of questions until all is said and done. It is not done yet. Maybe it will, and maybe it won’t. Maybe we will learn something, maybe we won’t. My ability to predict the future isn’t very good right now. It’s mostly clouded by not knowing the future.
“What should the plan be going forward?”
Since this is predominantly a military operation and my knowledge of military action is very minimal, I think it would be a good idea to allow the people in charge of carrying this out to do so as quickly and efficiently as possible. Unfortunately I am not very good at games like “Command and Conquer” and “Age of Empires” and am unable to formulate a good military strategy. This is why I hope that the people in charge know what they are doing. Unfortunately, when I talk to my cousin, I’m often times frustrated like he is. He sits around waiting…and waiting…to do what he is trained to do. I just wonder how efficient things actually are, right now.
I realize that the assumption of this question is probably that we should “get our troops home as soon as possible and apologize for any inconvenience we may have caused”, but realistically, that leaves us in a worse situation than if we don’t finish what we started.
I wonder if we should make one giant push with AT-AT’s on their shield generator. That’s what I would do in “Galactic Battlegrounds” if I could make it thru Charlie’s initial onslaught of worker droids at the beginning.
“What are the long-term and/or short term consequences of the war on the US and our role/standing in the world?”
This answer to this question assumes that the world doesn’t already think we’re power-hungry and arrogant. I think, though, that the opinions will vary depending on the state we leave the countries involved in after the military operation is truly complete.
I know you probably disagree with everything that I just wrote, but I don’t think it really accomplishes anything to point fingers and call people names. It doesn’t unify people and lead them. It just gets them more angry with each other.
But, hey, I’m just a guy with an opinion that you asked for.
Did you say Galactic Battlegrounds? Sweet. If we had AT-ATs in the first place, we’d have been out of Iraq by now. Or if Charlie had been in charge (would there be an Iraqi population left? He does like to kill civilian work droids).
Obviously, I do have an opinion on the war, but I did want to hear other people’s real thoughts about it. Did not mean for the questions to be slanted so I fixed it. Just for you ENOR. Did you even give you real thoughts? I’m not sure about that…..interesting statements though.
The “I’m not trying to be a jerk or start anything” statement was obviously completely disingenuous though.
Good reading though and the post is appreciated. I’ll give my real opinion after some more posts.
“If someone went into a coma on March 21, 2003 and woke up today, they would probably say something like this: We’re STILL in Iraq? Quit pullin’ my leg, fool. That was supposed to be a cakewalk.”
The disturbing statistics thus far, for a conflict that has NOT made us any safer (and if you think it has, please post a comment and explain to me how)”
“I’ll give my real opinion after some more posts.”
It seems like you already gave your real opinion. That was what I meant in my initial statement. You can change the questions all you want…but you gave your opinion rather clearly to ALL of those questions in your previous post.
If you were hoping that I’d go on an easy “Bush bashing” rant or defend some of the mistakes the administration has made, you’re not going to get that from me. I think it’s fruitless to simply bash the administration.
Yes, America is very frustrated and the approval ratings make that abundantly clear.
The point of HOPE is that it pushes TOWARD something. It does not dwell on the past…it looks forward to a better tomorrow. Hope forgives and changes things. It learns from its mistakes. It doesn’t need to mock mistakes.
Picking fights with people and continually degrading them is not a way to unite both parties. It is simply divisive.
I realize that you are passionate about how you feel. That’s awesome. Passion is good as long as it is full of hope. If it simply irritates people, it is futile. It places people on the defense.
I guess I just have a different approach. I can’t see how Bush would have been sitting around with his little buddies and saying things like “How can we totally screw up this country?” Maybe he did…but I doubt it. So often, when people attack other people, it is because they fail to see any value in the other person’s side. It is clear that you don’t see any value to the Bush administration’s decisions.
I really wasn’t trying to be a jerk or start anything. I really wasn’t . I was simply answering questions that you asked. I just happen to see things in a slightly different manner.
Yes, I realize I gave a hint of my opinion previously, but my point was that I wanted to find out what people other than me thought about the war. Really, I’m interested in what should be done going forward. Practical answers to a question with really no good answers at this point.
I wasn’t trying to pick a fight. And I respect your views, of course. I think readers know my feelings about the Bush administration. There is value in Bush’s many decisions over the years–just not values that I happen to share or believe are good or productive for this country. I will give him credit for any good things that have been done, like expanding our funding to help fight AIDS in Africa. But on the whole, just a disastrous seven years of fear-mongering. Really just tired of it already.
That’s why I like Obama so much, he’s new, forward-thinking, hopeful and passionate and I believe he can bring people of all stripes together to actually SOLVE the huge problems this country is facing. Clinton can’t. McCain can’t. They are both too tied to the past and been in Washington too long.
My suggestion is to give Bush a nice vacation starting January 20, 2009 by getting him a motorhome and a free trip to Dobson, North Carolina where he can enjoy lovely cornfields and walks into town.
Ok……
You want my real opinion on the Iraq war???
Really?
Right…….
#1…..the sell to the country was WMD’s for the ease of explanation….you have a country that follows none of the UN regulations laid sown on it after it’s botched invasion of Kuwait. Shoots at US planes in the no-fly zone, kicks out UN weapon inspectors, ramps up production of components of chemical weapons.(Yes, Gus I realize that they actually were not made into the chemical grade in large volume, BUT many of these chemicals stored are not for any industrial use in that country (Steel manufacture, computer components, etc.)) The sell should have been, not democracy, nor WMD, BUT the fact that Iraq continually broke the restrictions and agreement set by the Coalition forces to prevent Iraq from being invaded in the 90’s. Troop build ups and breaking of treaty regulations by Germany prior to WWII
would be a great example of why NOT to allow that to continue. BUT since many Americans are more concerned with Britney Spears (#1 web search week to week)
than reality, scaring them into agreeing to attack is about the only way to get this culture’s attention.
Now this does not disregard the fact of the documented training of Al-Qaida members in chemical weapons in Iraq.
#2…Congress does not run the war..it can control funding, but if it votes to go to war or to escalate it better darn well fund it…I’m shocked that this is even a viable option. Shows some members of our government are not that bright, send well trained soldiers into harms way without proper equipment then talk trash about them in front of the American public which in turn is used as propaganda on Al-Jazzier (sp.?)….well let’s see what happens when extremely disgruntled, well trained, disciplined military comes home to a civilian government that pisses away the lives of their comrades? See the history of the Roman Empire
#3 Members of the government have made this war prolonged longer then absolutely necessary for political leverage. I’m a proud believer in hitting an enemy hard over and over with any kind of standoff means that does not cause collateral damage in non-target areas. This means more then shock and awe…this means concentrated continual bombardment of ALL targets of opportunity. Yes, this includes items that will effect “innocent civilians”. Sewage treatment plants, steel industry, weapons plants, house of government officials. Then sit back and wait for the enemy to surrender. For those of you calling foul for collateral damage and casualties, should look at would God commands the Children of Israel, when they attack the people of the Promised Land. Paraphrased,”Kill them all men, women, and children…take no slaves.” This is first time the concept of total war is documented. In other words ,Enor, Yes if I was in charge of the Iraq war it would have been over in two years. Iraq would have no means to wage war nor fund terrorist operations, the civilians will bear grief but that is due to them allowing the dictatorship in the first place. And yes Justin, Iran is a target of opportunity.
#4 War is used by society to force ones’ view or to protect ones’ view, This is what the Iraq war and let’s not forget the Afghani war is all about.
On a side note, Obama has NOT stated how he is going to SOLVE anything….he is very charismatic, but airy words about change and harmony means NOTHING. Give me a list of what Obama has accomplished in congress, and what his hardcore values are. (Obviously he has been a 20 year member of a church that he does not believe the values that it espouses. If you believe that line I have some prime water front acreage for sale.)
Do I believe Washington is broke? Yes
Do I think ANY of the current candidates will fix it? No
Have we perverted the American Govt. that our founders created? Yes
How do we fix it?
Govt exists for the soul purpose of serving the public.
This means the elimination of lobbies, earmarks, govt. servants owning
companies.
Get back to the fundamentals that this country was founded upon, no longer legislating from the bench.
No longer borrow from our descendants’ future to spend on govt overspending today except on defense. (If the enemy holds your lands it does not matter if you balanced the budget.)
We are currently an Empire in decline, leaders not serving the public good, rise in depraved behavior being the cultural norm, abuse of the volunteer citizen army.
Empires in decline only come back after an overhaul and change in govt, while this is possible every 4 years under the current system this will not happen.
The fall will not be in our lifetime but during the lifetime of our children and grandchildren if we do not take actions in the present.
Gus, it appears you have a lack of comments based on choosing as topics the three things We Do Not Speak Of in America: race, religion, the Iraq war!
Hindsight is 20/20, but I’m one who opposed this war from the start because (aside from practical matters like cost and length) basically I never felt it met “just war” criteria–it was not the last resort solution to a serious problem, no true imminent threat. As a Christian I didn’t(don’t) feel I could support an unnecessary war. (Neither did virtually all the Christians around the world; most were very confused as to what a few flag-obsessed ones here were thinking.) Jimmy Carter made this just war argument in this article: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D00EFDE113FF93AA35750C0A9659C8B63
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war
Was it worth it? At this point, I can’t see any results that have made it worth an “unjust” war…(if one would even concede that ends can justify means in that way).
Have you read this? I haven’t really had time. http://responsibleplan.com/plan
That’s my $.02. Can I get my $2 trillion back now?
Apparently I don’t fall into the “virtually all the Christians around the world” category.
I understood the necessity of the Iraq war and supported the war at its beginning, supported it when my best friend’s brother was killed in Iraq the day after Christmas 2005 (BTW, she never has stopped believing in the necessity of this war, either), and I still support it today.
(As a rather long side note: by “support” I do not mean that I’ll tie a yellow ribbon on to “support the troops” and then do everything possible to deny them the monetary backing and additional troops needed to fight properly. As my husband alluded already, if Congress was not so concerned with public opinion and the lengths of their political careers and instead allocated the funds necessary the war would have been over in short order and would have cost less in both lives of our volunteer fighters and dollars than this mess of a plan they have created already has.)
I would love to sound off for a bit longer, but Doodle has a need for breakfast.
I think I owe an apology here for my choice of words/tone. I didn’t mean to demean different opinions and certainly not the service of our military personnel. Sorry!
Our troops overall have done their difficult jobs magnificently and yes, too often without enough resources. Once we started this we had a responsibility to do it right, and the resources and planning have fallen short of what the troops need and deserve. Supporting the troops, yeah, put your money where your mouth is, Congress.
I would say though that even though we can be proud of our troops for all they’re doing and grateful they are doing these jobs so the rest of us don’t have to - I still feel that they shouldn’t have had to do the things they’ve been asked to do. That’s not their fault and they shouldn’t be made to feel that it is (so yeah, we need to be careful with the ‘worth it’ language - sorry again if I came off rudely).
I know most American Christians supported the war at the beginning and many still do, but it’s just a fact that denominations around the world didn’t. I think Christians elsewhere put more weight on what their church leaders say about such things than we do here, for whatever reason, and so there was a lot more Christian opposition to the war around the world than here. I think there’s a peculiar mix of patriotism with religion in America, or perhaps it was just the times (post-9/11) and other factors, that led/leads to us forming our opinions on this issue and others more individually or “practically” than “theologically” through the lens of what church leaders are saying, etc. All things for the scholars to ponder, I suppose, but for whatever reason, the vibe here was different than most other places.
Note: all this is is not to say that Christians can’t come to different conclusions on social/political/secular issues - obviously we can and do! I would just hope that we all do take into account biblical principles and the wisdom of those before us, on ALL issues. We will still be left with gray areas but we will be honestly seeking to be faithful.
Okay, enough hijacking this thread into theological musings.
Questions for Kendra:
1. You say “I understood the necessity of the Iraq war” and I would like to ask you what you believe the necessity of the war was?
2. Congress has allocated all funds requested for the war by the Bush Administration, so I am assuming you blame the Bush administration for the length of the war, poor planning, horrid strategy, etc…? (side note: isn’t $550 billion and counting plenty?)
3. I’d like to ask, seriously, what do you believe this war has accomplished that would cause you to continue to support it?
4. What is your opinion of the “just war” policy that wmw mentioned?
I do hope Doodlebug had a lovely breakfast this morning and has been cooperative today.
Gus,
I intend to provide you with answers. It may be a bit before I can post them, as this is a busy week/weekend and I have little free time, but look for them early next week.
The Doodle dined well, and enjoyed her mealtime entertainment of seeing Mommy run amuck (run through muck?) as the washing machine overflowed….
Weather the reasons and information that got us where we are today were factual or not, and political agendas and party politics are involved or not, I’d encourage everyone to look at history and see what happens when a country decimated by war is left alone to fend for itself. Weather I agree with the “War” or not, it’s folly to think we can just pull everyone out and leave and everything will be OK. This is the thinking that occurred after WW1, Germany and Italy were left with nothing, thereby giving rise to desperate people who needed leadership - arrive Hitler and Mussolini with a strong message of national power. Arrive WW2. This is probably the single largest reason we maintained our bases in Germany and Italy until recent years, and why we have remaining military presence at every major hot spot for the last 50 years. We can’t cut and run. I feel we did this in the 90’s with Gulf War I, but then we were bowing to the UN and giving the process a chance. Here we are 15 years later trying to finish the job. If we run now, we’ll only have to come back later. This lesson unfortunately has not yet been learned by everyone and history certainly has countless examples. I don’t understand many of the factors that got us here, but looking forward we have to finish the job, the choice is when - now, or start over 20years from now.
I have to agree with Mike on this issue. We hold more than our share of responsibility to the Iraqi people and the security of society in general. To site another, more recent example, look at what happened in Afghanistan. The United States waged a “private” war with USSR during their invasion of Afghanistan. Once the Soviet Union had given up and withdrawn, our under-the-table support faded just as quickly. The U.S. did not even publicly try to help re-establish any type of government. By doing nothing, the warlords ruled the lands of Afghanistan with the ultimate winner between the warlords being the Taliban. Although we “won” that war with the Soviet Union, we ultimately lost. Through ignorance and apathy, we created this current war on terrorism. It would be very short-sighted and naive of us, as a nation, to withdraw from Iraq and then say, “We’re done now. You’re on your own from now on.”
“Through ignorance and apathy, we created this current war on terrorism.”
Joel totally just said America’s chickens have come home to roost. America-hater!
JUST KIDDING!
Gus, maybe start a new thread on getting out of Iraq? Because although I was against going in, I would agree that we can’t just pull out immediately without helping put it back together–you break it you bought it and all that.
1. Why Iraq war is necessary (an incomplete list):
a. Prior to the war’s inception:
i. Iraq’s firing on US planes in the no-fly zones.
ii. Iraq’s harboring of Al Qaeda.
iii. The Al Qaeda threat to our Saudi Arabian allies.
iv. Saddam Hussein’s mass torture and killings of his own countrymen.
v. Iraq’s disregard for required UN inspections.
b. Now:
i. Provide support for this new Iraqi democracy to help the country avoid a violent, ethnosectarian-centered civil war and the instability that would plague the region (not to mention the rest of the world) if fighting were to ensue.
ii. There are plenty of other reasons to stay now, but the above one seems to be the most glaringly obvious. It frightens me that people in power, both democrats and republicans, don’t seem to see that by pulling out in 60 days, by September, etc. without drastic changes to the situation as it stands would be tantamount to going hunting with Dick Cheney. On purpose.
2. “Congress has allocated all funds”
STRINGS ATTACHED!
“requested for the war by the Bush Administration, so I am assuming you blame the Bush administration for the length of the war,”
If the job’s not done, it’s not done (see 1.b above). If Congress stopped dragging their feet but instead had the courage to hit hard (yes, there would be civilian casualties) the war would be over in short order. Let’s impose specific time restraints on other unpredictably-long government expenses (do Medicare/Medicaid surgical and treatment scandals come to mind?) and see how the country fares. As it stands now, the “length” of the war doesn’t seem to be excessive considering the tasks at hand. Look at how past conflicts of similar scale handled in the same way have gone. Our media and society are so used to instant gratification that they don’t seem to realize that some things just don’t happen instantly.
“ poor planning, horrid strategy, etc…?”
Congress overstepping its bounds by dictating war strategy through the withholding of funds unless the request includes withdrawal dates?! Yet you wonder why President Bush and his advisors have not been able to accomplish things faster and more efficiently.
“ (side note: isn’t $550 billion and counting plenty?)”
As my husband already said, it doesn’t matter if you balance the budget if you lose your country in the process. BTW, defense spending is at 4% of the GDP (compared to 3% before September 11, 6.2% for the Cold War, nearly 10% for the Vietnam War, over 13% for the Korean War, and well over 35% for WWII). The average for the past 45 years has been 5.5%. Any idea what the percentage of the GDP is spent on things like tobacco, gambling, and pornography?
3. Among other things, we have removed Hussein from power, tracked down numerous Al-Qaeda henchmen, and helped the citizens of Iraq begin a democratic form of government. Those three alone are enough for me.
4. As far as “just war” goes, that phrase is an oxymoron. Fairness belongs in a friendly game, not a war. My opinion is that if “unfair” tactics, interrogations techniques that are humiliating and painful, or flat out dirty fighting are necessary in order to win, go at it wholeheartedly. In Scriptures, we see that God himself is not opposed to tricky, ruthless tactics even used against “innocent” members of the enemy tribes. As far as war goes, God seems to say that the end justifies the means.
This will probably be my last posting on this site. I am not interested in arguing just for the sake of arguing.
AH, I was beginning to think you forgot! The first thing I can say about your post is that it honestly does contain several glaring factual inaccuracies, such as the idea that Iraq was harboring Al Qaeda, for one. I’d like to take the time to respond in a friendly, fact-based manner that I hope will show some of the true facts about the conflict you may not have realized or ever had the time/opportunity to learn about. As the media does such an awful job sometimes at reporting on the truth. I’m sure, being a science-based person that you are open to facts possibly showing your hypothesis to be somewhat incorrect. Obviously some of what you wrote is opinion, and I do not mean to demean that part, as I respect your opinion, just to maybe prove a couple things and if you can show my facts to be wrong I will certainly be open to that.
Well said Kendra!
Actually, Gus even your more liberal NPR and PBS stations both aired specials on the decision to go to war and both stated seeing documents that clearly proved Al Qaeda received chemical weapons training in Iraq prior to 2001. There were also statements made by Guantanamo detainees that verified these findings without leading questions.
I had to personally think hard about why I should not have re-enlisted. It only came down to to two things, family and I was getting to old for that kind of crap. Sometimes I still wonder if I made a wrong decision back in 2001. I would not have the loving wife, or beautiful daughter that fill my days with joy today, but I still feel I have not done my duty to the nation I call home or the young men who went into situations where i should have been.
Many of the Gulf War vets I occasionally run into feel about the same, it’s as if we left a job half done back then and now someone else is paying the tab.
It broke my heart when someone we both know went over not once but twice. While he was away I often wished to take his place. (I really never could consider being one of Uncle Sam’s Misguided Children personally, but each his own)
And yes Gus the media does do I horrible job at telling the truth, how many soldiers do they go through till they find one that wants to sound of…probably not many seeing as many soldiers like to gripe lol…but for every one saying we are hurting innocents and losing lives for no reason there are more then likely ten that believe in what they are doing.
Since this is my last post….I’ll also tell you why Obama is a lousy candidate:
He opposes legislation that protect infants that survive a botched abortion.
He is adamantly pro-abortion, for the gay agenda and against legislation to protect the sanctity of marriage (one man and one woman).
Both democratic candidates and unfortunately the republican candidate pretty much are the same in these regards.
In other words like many others in this nation I have no candidate to back, but I will NOT vote for a candidate who does not embrace the values required of a leader given in 1Timothy or only gives lip service to Christ.
He’ll raise taxes on an already burdened middle class, by repealing the Bush tax cuts.
He has also stated to journalists that he plans to reintroduce the marriage penalty tax.
He will definitely not appoint judges that are strict constructionists, creating even more legislating from the bench.
Kendra looked at Gus’s list of Obama’s accomplishments in office. Since, she is highly intelligent and trustworthy I’ll take her word when she says, “It’s more like a list of reasons why I should not vote for this man.”
Since this site exists more to give glory and honor to a presidential candidate, continues to promote a media driven image of “Bush’s personal war”, then to truly debate the issues of our day I will not be posting here any longer.
Wait, so Charlie’s not going to vote in this election? Sweet.
I realize I have little chance of convincing some people to vote for Obama, but in my view he’s the most sincere, down to earth, forward-looking, practical, and inspirational candidate to come along since I’ve been voting. Now ardent right-wing conservatives won’t ever vote for him, and we have some of those as readers here, but I’ll keep on trying to inform patiently and to dispel some of the false perceptions of his positions or character that are out there. Some people only vote on particular issues, and if the candidate doesn’t share their viewpoint on that issue, they don’t vote for him/her. I don’t agree with Obama on EVERYTHING either, but I believe in looking at the totality of the candidate’s positions and character.
Sorry Gus I’ll have to take back my final post statement and reply this time.
You said:
Some people only vote on particular issues, and if the candidate doesn’t share their viewpoint on that issue, they don’t vote for him/her. I don’t agree with Obama on EVERYTHING either, but I believe in looking at the totality of the candidate’s positions and character.
Reply:
It’s not as if I am disagreeing with your choice in candidate for petty items Gus.
It’s called morals, and living by them.
Believe me I tried the other way it doesn’t work.
In other words, in your view a candidate who professes to love Christ yet will not vote in a way to further His Kingdom on Earth, but actually twists scripture to back agendas not in line with his professed faith is something just to overlook?
Don’t take me wrong I don’t hate homosexuals or those who kill there unborn children. How could I with all the crud in my past?
These are not minor issues, but ones that chip at the foundation of which our country was created. Once a foundation has eroded what happens to the rest of the building?
Are these the only issues or agendas that do this? No.
SIDE NOTE
Now..I can already hear the “Separation of Church and State” crap……
It is not in the Constitution. It was in a private letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists containing the phrase “wall of separation between church and state”.
The First Amendment states
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Meaning the State cannot establish a State religion.
In other words the excuse of politicians not handling hot topic morality issues by using Separation of Church and State is a load of bull dung.
END OF SIDE NOTE (Thank you for your patience)
You said:
but in my view he’s the most sincere, down to earth, forward-looking, practical, and inspirational candidate to come along since I’ve been voting
Reply:
So. You can be the most sincere, etc. etc. and still be wrong.
I am not looking for a candidate who agrees with my view on every issue, on the other hand Obama’s list of “accomplishments” are atrocious, but so are Clinton’s and McCain’s. By saying I am not voting for one of these candidates does not mean I will NOT vote at all.
I do have to thank you for making this blog since I knew nothing about Obama other then he can give a good speech when prepared, and this blog forced me to research him more. In other words any chance of my voting for Obama was thrown out the window when he was placed under only minor scrutiny.
Now seriously this is my last post.
Charlie has (re-)raised some important points and questions for those of us who ascribe to a particular religious faith: How does our faith inform how we look at policy? How about a candidate’s faith? What issues are impacted by our spiritual/moral worldview–none of them, certain ones, or all? Some more than others? What do we do when a person or party seems to line up on some issues but not others?
We all have to work through this stuff and believe me, I’ve wrestled in the past and sometimes still second-guess the grid I’m working off. It’s not easy to weigh such things and to see the whole picture while staying focused on what’s important. Sometimes pulling the voting machine lever is a step of faith. Actually, it always is. Which is why in the end, it’s not all I have faith in.
Just trying to note some common ground here–I really think we’re all trying to do the best we can with the information we have, so I hope we can find a way to all learn from each other. Iron sharpens iron and all that, you know. Peace y’all!
PS: Do you think I have a peacemaker personality at all?